{"text":[[{"start":4.8,"text":"So we're going to start our story with a wedding. The year is 595 CE, Common Era. So the venue is the Arabian market town of Mecca, and it's bringing together two figures in that town's business community. So we're going to start with the groom, the hero of our story, who is, of course, Mohammed himself. So, Benedikt, can you tell us a little bit about the young Mohammed, who's about to get married at the time? "}],[{"start":30.8,"text":"Well, Mohammed came from a family that was high level, high prestige, was an elite family. But his own life was very, very hard. And he knew from very early on he'd have to pay his way in life. And the reason was that his father was a caravan merchant. But, unfortunately, his father died on a caravan mission, didn't come home in time for his own birth. "}],[{"start":51,"text":"So he was an orphan. And he was raised first by his grandfather and then, when the grandfather died, by his uncle, Abu Talib. And Abu Talib took in hand to give the young boy a professional background. And he wanted to train him up to be a caravan merchant, which is what everybody in the family did. "}],[{"start":68.25,"text":"Well, that's always a good start for anybody. But what exactly was caravan trading in those days? What did it mean? "}],[{"start":76.1,"text":"Well, caravan trading was the business model of people in Mecca. Mecca is, and Arabia generally is not a place where you'll make money and make a living out of agriculture. What they had to do was to find a way to make a living by intermediating trade, taking goods from one part of the world, from Asia or Arabia, and taking it to another part of the world. "}],[{"start":97.75,"text":"So they were very, very cosmopolitan and very international-minded. And they knew they could make a lot of money transporting high-value goods. The higher the value the better. Stuff like gold, or spices, or silk. But they also knew that they were running tremendous risks, as Mohammed knew from experience because his father died on a caravan venture. "}],[{"start":118.65,"text":"And I gather 2,000 to 3,000 camels involved in this, going such vast distances at the time, which is a lot of camels. "}],[{"start":126.9,"text":"Wow, yeah, that's a big caravan. That's not like a small poxy one. That's like an entourage. "}],[{"start":133.85,"text":"And the... "}],[{"start":135.79999999999998,"text":"A juggernaut, a caravan juggernaut. "}],[{"start":139.04999999999998,"text":"What is the collective noun for camels? I don't know. A grumpiness of camels? I don't know. "}],[{"start":144.45,"text":"No, and the interesting thing about organising 2,000 or 3,000 camels is that you have to organise the people who own those camels. And you have to organise the people who are going to supply those camels with goods. So there were lots and lots of people involved in this. It's what you'd call vertical integration across the whole production of the economy of Mecca, which went on for several months until, on a specific date, they'd leave. "}],[{"start":170.25,"text":"And they were carrying things like pearls, and incense, and spices, and leather, and gold, and silver. And it would have been very high value and, therefore, pretty risky, crossing by themselves with all the bandits out and things. "}],[{"start":184.85,"text":"And with all the bandits out and things, they thought, why should we leave all this trade to the people coming from Mecca? And this is where Mohammed's family comes in because he had a great-grandfather by the name of Hashim. And Hashim had an idea. He approached lots of the Bedouins that were guarding the routes that they were travelling through and told them, listen, instead of you trying to raid us and us hiring guards to protect us from you, why don't you just leave us some of your goods? We'll take them along on our trip. And on the way back we'll settle. "}],[{"start":216.75,"text":"So Hashim created a win-win situation when, before, there was a lose-lose situation. That was one of the ways that they felt that trade is a good ideal. And it's the business model that brings prosperity to everybody who's involved. And that business model was called Ilaf. And the Ilaf is mentioned by Hashim's great-grandson, Mohammed, who became a prophet. "}],[{"start":239.35,"text":"But can you tell us, yeah, a bit more about the backdrop here? So this is the 6th century Arabia, essentially, middle of the desert. What kind of world were these big, massive caravan trades happening in? What was the political situation in Arabia at the time? "}],[{"start":255.6,"text":"Well, the astonishing thing about Arabia is that they never appeared on the radar of the big empires, who would have loved to take them over. But they never managed to subjugate Arabs. So Arabs, if they had one thing in common, is that they didn't like foreigners taking over their lands. But if there's another thing they didn't like, is any of the Arabs taking over their lands either. "}],[{"start":277.7,"text":"So they were really a Hayekian world. There were private agreements between all these tribes, and they met for one reason in regular intervals. They'd go on pilgrimage to Mecca and worship their individual deities. They were polytheists, and they were tolerant of any devotion whatsoever. So they met regularly in Mecca. "}],[{"start":299.05,"text":"And Mecca was a safe space for them to worship, and then also to do trade, but also to team up, and do business, and go on caravans. So religion and cross-border trade went hand-in-hand. That was the Meccan business model. But they were never part of an empire. And that's one of the things the Arabs were very proud of: nobody ever managed to take us over. "}],[{"start":319.8,"text":"So that's really fascinating, that mix between religion and cross-border commerce, as you say, because it doesn't really fit the regular view of religion in many other parts of the world. But I'm curious, if that was Mohammed, what about the person he was marrying at the wedding, Khadija? "}],[{"start":335.6,"text":"Khadija was Mohammed's lucky break in many ways. He would never have been introduced to Khadija, who was a high-net worth individual of the time. "}],[{"start":345.1,"text":"So she was a wealthy merchant at the time. "}],[{"start":347.95000000000005,"text":"She was not only very wealthy, she was also a woman who was very wealthy. So if you didn't go on caravans yourself, but if you picked the right kind of caravan manager, you'd invest in their caravan venture and you'd split the profits on their return. And she made a substantial fortune that way. So she was wealthy. And she sponsored Mohammed when he started out in the caravan business. And, eventually, they got married. And it was, by all accounts, a very happy marriage. She died 25 years later, but he always had very fond memories of Khadija. "}],[{"start":382.75000000000006,"text":"And one of the things that's really surprising was she was actually 15 years older than him, wasn't she? So she was not only his boss, not only his investor, but she was also his senior in so many ways. "}],[{"start":395.75000000000006,"text":"Gillian, I know she was senior, but I don't how much older she was. But she was older and she had children before. "}],[{"start":403.75000000000006,"text":"So how usual was it... you said women being active in business in sort of 6th century Arabia. How common was it? What kind of situation were they... did they have at the time? "}],[{"start":415.90000000000003,"text":"Well, it's so unusual for women to be involved in business in most countries in most centuries, isn't it? But it wasn't unusual in Arabia. And I think I already mentioned his great-grandfather, Hashim. He had a wife, Salma. She too was an independent trader, and she traded on her own account. So in Arabia, back in those days, it was common for women to have property rights of their own, but also to be active in business. "}],[{"start":448.95000000000005,"text":""}]],"url":"https://audio.ftcn.net.cn/album/a_1787482599_1640.mp3"}